Do you support continuing the War in Afghanistan?

[Mil]

Mil, understandable to be disappointed as a former resident of Finland!

I know - it's always fun to talk about someone else. So when will Finland start teaching its kids of the crimes it was involved in?

[shravan]

Originally Posted by pagan

Saravan,

Nobody here is able type my name correctly....

Taliban = Islam.

Do you want Taliban rule in Afghanistan ?

[Y. Shulamith]

Afghanistan helped to bankrupt USSR and we here in the USA have already been bankrupted by all the thieves in the financial sector.

[Justcurious]

Originally Posted by Mil

Mil, understandable to be disappointed as a former resident of Finland!

I know - it's always fun to talk about someone else. So when will Finland start teaching its kids of the crimes it was involved in?

This is like this question: when will you stop beating your wife?

[Kachah]

Originally Posted by Mil

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%...B4%D0%B0%D1%85

For some reason that particular page is not translated in Suomi.... even though it's about Finland.

Well, sources there are - such as this: Continuation War. It gives the account of crimes, accusations and convictions AND exists in Suomi (though I cannot verify how accurate the translation is).
By the way, your one in particular is for Russian internal consumption only, even the war is called by its fictional name "Great Patriotic".

Trusting sources in Russian, more even, sources in Russian about WW2 - ...mmm... a bit naive, no?

[ranchcer]

Who could blame the American for their lack of enthusiasm?
If Afghanistan was a war of necessity, then they would have to win it...and fast.
Few actually believe that they can turn the tide even if they double the number of troops.
What is the point going in when everyone is desperate to make it for the exit door?
Finally, who would want to support a notoriously corrupt Karzai with an even more corrupt government as your best assets to establish a democracy that will never exist in a country where women are stoned to death....unless you are very high on opium

[Reffo]

Do I support the war in Afghanistan?

It depends. If America/NATO is willing to fight to win and win at all cost then yes I support it. If on the other hand they are there to just posture and pussy foot around then NO! I don't support it ...

What do I mean by "win at all cost"? I mean that they are willing to be as ruthless and stubborn as the terrorists and fight a no holds barred war, starting with identifying the right targets and eliminating them instead of trying to eliminate the mindless foot soldiers.

Which targets am I talking about? I'll answer this one with a question: Where are the foot soldiers coming from? Answer: They are being trained and incited at the Madarassas by middle aged or elderly Mullahs who churn them out faster than any NATO army can eliminate them.

That of course, begs the question: Why not attack the supply line (the Madarassas)? And the suppliers (The Mullahs)? And this is what I meant by pussy footing: Stop the PC and just eliminate the inciters and the financiers of terror! Once they get the message that THEIR neck is on the line and that they can no longer stand on the sideline and enjoy the mayhem that they bring about, they will soon stop or at least slow down their effort to churn out the mindless foot soldiers whom they consider as cannon fodder.

If NATO and the Americns would be willing to do that, I would be in favour of continuing the war to it's natural conclusion. Otherwise it's just a waste of lives, time and money ...

[shravan]

Originally Posted by Reffo

That of course, begs the question: Why not attack the supply line (the Madarassas)? And the suppliers (The Mullahs)?

Then Afghanistan is the wrong place. Its Pakistan which needs to be attacked and America knows that VERY WELL. All the top leaders are in Pakistan (Quetta Shura).


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/22/ma...stan.html?_r=1
By ELIZABETH RUBIN
Published: October 22, 2006

As I traveled through Pakistan and particularly the Pashtun lands bordering Afghanistan, I felt as if I were moving through a Taliban spa for rehabilitation and inspiration. Since 2002, the American and Pakistani militaries have focused on North Waziristan and South Waziristan, two of the seven districts making up Pakistan’s semiautonomous tribal areas, which are between the North-West Frontier Province and, to the south, Baluchistan Province; in the days since the 9/11 attacks, some tribes there had sheltered members of Al Qaeda and spawned their own Taliban movement. Meanwhile, in the deserts of Baluchistan, whose capital, Quetta, is just a few hours’ drive from the Afghan city of Kandahar, the Afghan Taliban were openly reassembling themselves under Mullah Omar and his leadership council. Quetta had become a kind of free zone where strategies could be formed, funds picked up, interviews given and victories relished.

In June, I was in Quetta as the Taliban fighters celebrated an attack against Dad Mohammad Khan, an Afghan legislator locally known as Amir Dado. Until recently he was the intelligence chief of Helmand Province. He had worked closely with U.S. Special Forces and was despised by Abdul Baqi — and, to be frank, by most Afghans in the south. Mullah Razayar Nurzai (a nom de guerre), a commander of 300 Taliban fighters who frequently meets with the leadership council and Mullah Omar, took credit for the ambush. Because Pakistan’s intelligence services are fickle — sometimes supporting the Taliban, sometimes arresting its members — I had to meet Nurzai at night, down a dark lane in a village outside Quetta.

=================
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan's Taliban dilemma 7 November 2009

The Afghan Taliban leadership and sources of supply are not even in Afghanistan, they are in Pakistan - in Quetta, a city just across the mountains from Kandahar where so many British and American troops have died.

The charge of cynicism arises because the Americans and the British support the Pakistan government - and the Pakistan government at the same time provides sanctuary in Quetta for the Afghan Taliban who are killing US and British troops.
.
.

Supply lines
At the moment, Pakistan is both ally and enemy to the USA - ally in the fight against the Pakistani Taliban, but enemy so long as they continue to protect the Afghan Taliban.

Quetta is the crucial element. An entire suburb of that Pakistani city is effectively occupied by the Afghan Taliban and their "Shura" ruling council - including their leader Mullah Omar.

The Afghan Taliban get many of their basic supplies in Quetta - their motorbikes, for example, and their mobile phone SIM cards.

And their supply lines cross the mountains into Afghanistan to the north.

Afghanistan is caught in the middle. Nothing will really change here until this has been resolved.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan's Taliban dilemma 7 November 2009

[shravan]

How the US Funds the Taliban
By Aram Roston
November 11, 2009

...
Two years ago, a top Afghan security official told me, Afghanistan's intelligence service, the National Directorate of Security, had alerted the American military to the problem. The NDS delivered what I'm told are "very detailed" reports to the Americans explaining how the Taliban are profiting from protecting convoys of US supplies.

The Afghan intelligence service even offered a solution: what if the United States were to take the tens of millions paid to security contractors and instead set up a dedicated and professional convoy support unit to guard its logistics lines? The suggestion went nowhere.
...
The trouble is that--as with so much in Afghanistan--the United States doesn't seem to know how to fix it.

America should rename Af-Pak to Fak-Ap

[Reffo]

Thank You Shravan

You proved my point. The terrorists are fighting a ruthless, no holds barred war which knows no borders or boundries. America/Nato are trying to fight a conventional war with all sorts of constraints and boundries. Their current formula has been tried before in Vietnam and we all know where that ended up ... What they are doing now, reminds me of the definition of insanity: "Insanity is defined as repeating the same behavior and expecting a different result"

I repeat: Unless America/NATO are willing to try something different and go for the jugular, they may as well give up now. They should be willing to fight the terrorists wherever they are and by whatever means including non conventional means using the terrorists own methods against them. If they do that, they will have every chance of defeating them.

I have nothing more to add to the above, read into it what you will...

[shravan]

Reffo,

America messed this war thinking they can buy anything with the power of Money. Its has turned into a monster.

Now there are Two Talibunnies and if both join hands in the future, then only Allah knows where the nukes might end up.

And another problem now is even the small terror groups from Pakistan like LeT have a global reach.

FBI interrogation reveals LeT attacks in India
Wed, Nov 04, 2009

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) after interrogating two terror suspects, Tahawwur Hussain Rana and David Coleman Headley, arrested from Chicago last month, has thrown up frightening details of places in India the Lashkar-e-Toiba planned to strike.

--

[takeo]

Originally Posted by shravan

Read DPG & in Nov. 1998 The Trade and Development Agency commissioned Enron to perform a feasibility study re: an east-to-west route, crossing the Caspian Mountains and terminating in Turkey along the Mediterranean. The route was considered impractical as it would cost more than a route through Afghanistan.

Just like a repeat of what happened in the 80's, but this time the US supports the right side... The US created the devil which then turned against its former master. Anyway we can't just leave the taliban in power, as happened in the 90's, that would destabilise former Soviet Union and China, not to mention Iran and Pakistan as well as the West. If NATO leaves, these countries will not let Taliban fill the void. Best to pay and support the different factions and tribes which fight the Taliban. Karzai is too weak, Afghanistan is not ready for a western style democracy, it needs a strongman. I think general Dostum is the right candidate for the job, he proved to be a strong leader for 3 decades already, and he knows how to handle the Taliban.

In most ethnic-Uzbek dominated areas in which Dostum has control or influence, he encourages women to live and work freely, as well as encouraging music, sports and allowing for freedom of religion.[citation needed] While Dostum was ruling northern Afghanistan before the Taliban takeover in 1998, women were able to go about unveiled, alcohol was sold freely, and the cinemas showed Indian films.[32]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Dostum
He views the NATO attempt to crush the Taliban as ineffective and has gone on record saying that he could mop up the Taliban "in six months" [2], if allowed to raise an 10,000 strong army of Afghan veterans.[2] Senior Afghan government officials do not trust Dostum as they show great concern that Dostum is covertly rearming his forces.[2]


Today Afghanistan is completely destroyed and a medieval society. But it shouldn't have been this way. Communists were trying to secularise and modernise the country, but didn't succeed because of strong American, Iranian, Pakistani and Arab support for the islamist rebels

[shravan]

Fort Hood shootings suspect may have wired money to Pakistan

LOL. I was waiting for this news. 90% of the Islamic Terror activities have direct/indirect links with this country.

[shravan]

"Today Afghanistan is completely destroyed and a medieval society. But it shouldn't have been this way. Communists were trying to secularise and modernise the country, but didn't succeed because of strong American, Iranian, Pakistani and Arab support for the islamist rebels"

Stop your bullshit propaganda.

[Reffo]

Originally Posted by Shravan

America messed this war thinking they can buy anything with the power of Money. Its has turned into a monster

But it's not too late. The situation is still retrievable if they are willing to be pragmatic and flexible ...